[Auto-generated transcript. Edits may have been applied for clarity.]
Hello. How's it going?

Pretty good. Yeah.

It's one of the rare times that I was on campus. I took it, so it's.

Just. Like.

I'm pretty. Sure.

Um. I think it's what I just.

Said. But if you can. Is like that.

I mean, when they get. That.

It. Really great.

Yes. Yes.

Yes. I know that you move a bit.

In. Person. You?

Well. So.

I wondered if this was because you were.

He wasn't understanding. The emotional scene at first?

No, I was explaining because I was tired.

Probably half that because I didn't want to change anything.

Because. I swear.

To God, I don't want to play.

It's really important for me to give her personal email, and then she says, go and sleep over there if you want to know the password.

I just can't do that because what I was saying was it was pointless.

We can we can watch that. And then I swear that was nice and stuff because you have to change your keys.

I wish you could come to me.

They appreciate it. And I'm lucky I came in today. Yeah, I just took the first part.

I can't seem to get back in it.

Yeah, that's. The problem is. I didn't have a.

In. That became the paper company.

Okay. And he's talking about it exact same thing.

And I hope that because the guy could tell. I mean, it's not like even I was saying.

Like, if it takes another get clientele, it's.

I was. Thinking, how do I believe that?

I don't know why they. Even have anything to.

Do with this. Okay. What do you think? Yeah, yeah I guess.

Yeah. The one I said I was into the third circle.

Oh, yeah. Uh.

Oh, my God. No. That's okay. I think my muscles are.

Ready? And they're going to do that.

They're going to join real quick. This time.

It's cold. So.

Like. I don't like these things.

I to see the question of whether they did this enough.

For us. And it was it was still more than a year later.

That's it. Okay. I don't think.

Yeah, we could do that.

That's not a. I think somebody reading this.

So. All right.

Your favorite review question isn't going to be the last time I'm going to do these four.

Which of the following involves written questions? Okay, so we got that interrogative use.

Which of the following involves interviews under oath? Did they get, uh, depositions to talk about today?

Which of the following involves requesting documents from the other side?

The cluster of production. And the last one.

Which of the following involves admitting to something under oath? To herd immunity.

Uh. And that hopefully the the green one was, uh, a slip of the thing.

Support. Okay. This tool provides you the Cidr network range for an IP address.

So you're going to reconstruct the other week. Address in.

Just. Staying on that one.

So central laptop mode is kind of a better version of a who is tool.

So that would you do that. Make sure it doesn't provide the flicker.

That's usually unless they changed. You know you have to provide the slider to show them.

So check that range. Which still allows you to search for SSL TLS certificate information.

This. Year at the census.

So if you haven't already, at some point I would apply to get a census account.

And if you applies a researcher like an academic researcher,

you can get access to more information is very useful and then show it and ask for your accounts as well which are useful.

Which tools provide subdomains for domain?

So, you know, it's dumpster for that one. I should change that tool.

So my bottom line up. The Google operator to return only PDFs is what?

Access to operator colon pdf.

It's tool can be used to make graphs of social media users to understand their connections to each other.

So show of hands. Who in here is used maltego before him?

Okay, so you guys do that in class. Do you have a free version or like a fuller education version for your free version?

Okay, yeah, there's not a ton you can do in the free version. The full version has a lot more features.

Which tool to use file metadata. Use that in the first classes.

Thank you. Yeah.

Good message to all. Which in the following is used to tell a party not to delete specific types of evidence.

Resignation letter. Now, in some of these questions you'll see in multiple kahoots.

So when I repeat questions, they're ones that in prior final exams people you know predominantly got incorrect.

So I'm trying to do you guys a solid when I repeat them. Are the questions in the title going to be multiple choice?

Uh so make sure the multiple choice to falls for a few short answer.

And then there'll be five kind of long answer questions.

The end. Yeah. True or false.

A discovery plan must be filed with the court within 14 days of the meeting.

Confirmed. It's true.

Hello? Most of the following is used to gauge how much time is needed to process certain quantities.

We discovered. That shows him that one.

What's the process of reviewing discovery to find relevant evidence?

Yeah. So fact finding. OCR is optical character recognition.

So please make text accessible from. Last line emotion to what is used to force a party to produce evidence previously.

Request. To question.

Didn't turn it over. You file this motion so they have to turn it over.

Yeah. Motion to compel. I think it's great you have these three.

So let's say you got a new computer after about four years.

So I have to find where everything is in here. Stage.

Which is good. Okay.

There you go. So today we are into week 11.

And in the past I really only talked about the project, and I let you get into your groups together to work on the project.

This year I'm going to do it a little differently. So next week we're going to talk about all things depositions and trials.

Uh, you know, we do some exercises in class where we practice a little bit, and then I would show videos.

But I found in prior semesters that if I try to do all that in a single class session,

we're really not able to watch the videos much, and then you have to do it later.

So this year, what I think I'm going to do is we'll talk about the project parameters and instructions and everything.

Then I'll have you meet here groups for about 15 minutes or so,

just so that you can start to structure things and figure out how you're going to communicate.

Then I'll go ahead and pull up week 12 and we'll see how far we can get along.

And then next week we'll finish week 12 and we'll have more time to watch videos and kind of, you know,

give some feedback, get feedback from all of you about what you're seeing on some of these deposition trial videos.

So. Go ahead and take note of what group you're in.

So first we're going to go through the in class. So I'll leave this up for a second.

So write down somewhere what we're in. And I just picked these groups and names at random.

So I used Excel's random functions. So that's how you.

Get. And I also put the groups into canvas, so I'm sure there's a spot where you can see what group you're in in there as well.

But everyone noticed all the names on here.

It's a good. And see which group you're in for 3 or 4.

And we'll have one more in class group. And here are Group five books.

Okay. They're all written down. A group here in. Are all good.

And online students that are watching this video. I'll send an announcement after class.

But here you also have your groups.

So you'll have group six. Group seven. And group eight and nine.

That up for just a second. And this is their Group ten.

Group 11. All right.

So the main rule is groups are only supposed to work with each other within your group.

So we're all working on similar assignments here. So don't work with any other groups.

So that's a big rule. Any unauthorized collaboration between multiple groups will result in a zero.

The most involved groups haven't had this problem in the past, so let's keep it like that.

And this project is roughly a third of your semester grade.

So one third where the four assignments related to the research paper that we've gradually been getting to.

Then we have this assignment and then we have the final exam.

So those are about a third each. And then 10% we have for attendance which are calculated the end.

So you get ten points for every class that you came to.

Here are two excused absences. So just subtract for people that are online.

It'll be based off of your analytics. So you know did you watch the videos.

Did you access the course things like that. All right.

So every group will be working on the same fictional case.

So any evidence you see is fictional. So not related to any real people.

And I used Excel's random function again to generate fake data for this.

So all the names you see are fake phone numbers or fake cities.

You know, those are probably real. Any random combination that's an actual real life person is coincidental.

So here's the case that we're dealing with. So our plaintiff's name is Sarah Michaelson and the defendant is Acme Corp.

So in this particular case, the facts are the defendant, Acme Corp, allegedly sent text messages in violation of the Tcpa.

So that's that rule we'll call federal statute.

So the Telephone Consumer Privacy Act. And they set that to mobile phone numbers without consent.

You guys you know you can send text messages or whatever like robo dials if you have consent.

So a lot of times when you sign up in a retail store or you're online and you sign up for an account,

a lot of times they'll have you check a box and they'll say, you know, are you opting in for marketing?

The reason that they're doing that is they don't want to be in violation of the tcpa, because if someone ends up suing them for that,

they'll basically pull all those logs and they'll show, you know,

every single user of the website when they logged in, the date and time that they click that checkbox.

And some companies are even going so far is they have like screen video capture,

where they'll basically follow all of your mouse movements and they'll have that on the screen.

So if they ever got called on it, they could present that to the other side so they can say, actually, here's a video of your plaintiff using this.

You know, they use these libraries. One of them is called mouse flow.

And mouse flow is a JavaScript library that companies use.

And it'll track where your mouse moves if you type in the web forms or track what you're typing and when you're typing.

So all of that. So anyway, so the defendant sent these text messages allegedly in violation of the tcpa to mobile phone numbers without consent.

One person that receive these messages is the plaintiff, which is Sarah Michaelson.

Her phone number is (491) 530-7881.

So each group's job is to analyze evidence and find other people that meet a single class definition.

So as we've talked about in class, you know, a class action always starts off with an individual person.

And then you file a motion for class certification.

And the judge will either approve or deny the ability to turn that individual case into a class action.

If that is approved, then you have to basically find all the people that are involved in the class.

So you're going to be doing a little bit of that. So basically doing research in support of a motion for class certification.

And this is similar to something that I would do, you know in a day to day case.

All right. So each group will use the same evidence and will play the role of an expert witness team for the plaintiff.

So even though you'll work together as a team and, you know, the team leader might say,

okay, it's like this person work on the script, this person work on the slides or whatever.

But once we get into the actual presentations,

where there'll be one single day where all the in-person students will come here, and then the next week.

So the in-person students don't have to come the next week, and the next week it'll all be online.

So I'll work with all the groups on zoom, and I'll assign people different times, but essentially you'll have about a half hour and.

Every single person in the group is responsible for knowing everything about the case.

So I'm going to call on people at random.

So even though you're an expert team, when you're presenting in front of the class, it's really like each of you are an individual expert.

So, you know, I'll just pick the first person, start asking questions, pick the second person.

So as you're doing this project, you know it's fine to distribute the workload,

but you got to make sure that everyone understands everything about the case.

And that would happen in real life. So in real life, you know, if there were a team of consulting experts that were working on a case,

you know, all of them would have to know about what's going on in the case.

So that's what we do, that each group will be analyzing evidence that was produced by the defendant.

And the evidence can be viewed in and downloaded from ever law from the group project files, documents.

So as we've gone another little we scroll to the right. We find the documents that one of them is called Project Files.

So you can look through ever a lot to look through the evidence.

But one thing I want to make very, very clear don't use over a lot of the comments, highlights,

codes or anything because as we noticed before, you know we're all sharing the same reviewer function.

So if you start typing all of your notes, another group is going to be able to see that.

So only use ever a lot to look for things. And you can download documents that you'll use for your slides that you think are relevant.

But the whole purpose of a lot is just to look through the evidence to figure out what's relevant,

and then download that so that you can use it in your presentation slides.

In terms of the overview of file types.

So 174 emails in there, they're PDFs images documents spreadsheets.

So there's a whole bunch of things in there. Not everything is going to be relevant.

Only certain things will be relevant. So you have to look through and make sure that you can find those things.

So when you pull up the assignment make sure to look at the rubric.

And the rubric will tell you especially on the oral examination kind of what I'm looking for.

So make sure you look through all that. Read in detail the instructions so you know what the deliverables are.

The deliverables in general you have the evidence analysis.

So I'm going to ask you to figure out all of the phone numbers that they're involved which they're obviously the duplicates.

So every call that fits the class definition. But then I'm also going to ask you for who the unique people are.

So you're going to have to do some deduplication. So once you generate those csvs, you know that will be part of the evidence analysis.

I'm also going to want you to submit a steps document.

So every step you took to analyze the data and to come up with those csvs, I want all of that listed.

And that's important too from a real world aspect, because like I said, you know,

I might work on something and then I don't hear anything about it for years.

You know, I had where five years later, all of a sudden the case is going to trial.

And then I have to remember what I did five years ago. So it's very important to have those steps.

So I make sure to document everything as I go so that it is five years later.

I can read through it and quickly figure out what I did with the case.

So that's why you're making that.

Then you'll have an expert declaration, which is a one, two, three page document, which is basically your expert report under oath.

So in support of the motion for class certification, you know,

here's my declaration that says how many phone numbers were called, how many people are involved.

All of that. So on canvas, they're already in the module for week 11 is a template for that.

So each group download one of those and then just fill it out and make sure it's detailed.

So I am going to be a stickler for any sort of errors on that because the court is like that.

You know, when you submit something to the court, like there cannot be typos,

that can't be weird formatting things, and you really can't have anything, you know, written incorrectly.

So make sure when you figure out what your final counts are,

because you're going to be graded to see if you actually figured out the correct number of calls and the correct number of people involved.

And every year we'll have about now, maybe three quarters of the groups end up getting the right counts.

And then the other quarter is just slightly off.

So, you know, make sure you do your due diligence and double check.

So after you make these csvs, figure out some ways to do some spot check and then make sure you didn't make any errors.

But I had one group last year where they actually did a great job, and they had the numbers that were correct.

They talked about it being correct, but then in their declaration they just had a typo and the number was wrong.

And again, you know, I pretend to be your attorney and I do.

Direct examination. But then I pretend to be the evil opposing attorney, and I'm doing a cross examination.

You know, I went after them pretty good. You know, it doesn't seem like, you know, you guys did your due diligence.

It seemed like you made errors if you made this error. What other errors did you make?

As you know, can you tell the court there's no possibility you made another error because you made this error.

So you don't want to set yourself up for that sort of thing. It just gives more ammunition to the other side and fuel to the fire.

So and then so now since we have deliverables, steps, documents, two outputs, csvs we have the declaration document.

And then we have the trial presentation itself, where again you'll get up there,

you'll have your slides which will basically be the exhibits in the case.

I will pretend to be your attorney and I'll ask some direct questions about those.

You know, to each person. We'll kind of go through all the evidence and then I'll ask the cross exam questions after that.

And the cross exam questions are going to be based on your presentation and the evidence and the slides and also your counts and also the declaration.

So now I'll talk about the end. But I ask for people to turn it in.

Maybe it's Saturday by midnight and your presentations are on Monday.

So then I take Sundays and let's do everything and try to find all your errors.

And then I write myself a little script of how I'm going to cross-examine you all based off of that.

So I this is one assignment that can't be late because I have to at least have a day and be able to go through this when we have the presentation.

So we have plenty of time. I've never had anyone actually turn this in late or just, you know, complete part of it.

So I've got plenty of time for this stuff. All right in the lecture for half of this class.

And next week will help with the trial presentation part where we where did we download the template?

The declaration template is on canvas in the week 11 module I think.

All right. So I'm going to talk about, you know, all of this analysis and the various steps in a little bit more detail.

So for the analysis part. So you'll be provided two spreadsheets.

So you'll find these in every law. So you have contact list dot csv.

And this is a list, uh, phone number, first name, last name, age and state for the individuals that Acme Corp. purchased for their database.

So these are the people that they wanted to market to. Then you have another list and it's message list two dot CSV.

And this is the output log of the texting software.

So generally how this works is you know, the company either buys a list of folks or they collect it from their own website.

Or when people go in stores, they may opt in to marketing however they have it.

You'll have this contact list of everybody with their phone numbers.

And then they feed that into the dialing software.

And the dialing software is called an ATV's. So it's like an automatic telephone dialing system.

And they can sequentially dial through all these numbers. Once the software is done doing that it shoots an output log.

So message list dot two CSV is the output log.

And it's going to have the number that was texted. So we have a field for the date that the text was sent via the dialing system.

It's going to have the phone number added to the DNC list date.

So there is a do not call list.

This run by the FTC that you can put yourself on if you don't want to receive any sort of, you know, robocalls and spam and all this stuff.

It'll have the body of the text message and then it will have the status of the text message.

So as you'll find once you do some research on this, you know, this particular system was using Twilio.

So show of hands. Who's heard of Twilio before? Yeah.

That's us. So Twilio is an API where you can basically add telephony to software.

So if you wanted to make a mobile app that would call people or you wanted to make a web app that would call people,

you know, it's basically kind of like taking a VoIP system and embedding it into soft.

So there's APIs for that. So Twilio is probably the most important one.

So when the message is sent, you know the software will connect via an API to Twilio.

Then Twilio will send the actual text message. Then there's a steps.

So was it received you know, was it not received?

That is sent back to Twilio, which is sent back to the dialing software which is outputted at that level.

Does that make sense to everybody on the architecture for that? Yeah.

So that's the main evidence that you have in terms of the spreadsheets.

So those two spreadsheets and then you're going to have a few things that you're going to have to do.

So I'm nice and I told you about these problems. But usually in a case you're not going to be told about these problems.

So you would just get the evidence and you have to do a lot of validation, and you have to check for errors and figure out any problems.

Because if the evidence, you know, is like overlapping columns, for example, you know, your accounts are going to be way off.

So you have to make sure that everything is in a good spot for that.

So when you look at Message list two dot csv, you're going to have to fix some issues.

So you're going to have to look for any non-numeric characters from the phone number column.

And then some awful person allowed commas in the message column and saved it as a CSV.

What happens that? Big shifts. Yeah, everything shifts because it's a comma separated values.

So if you pull that up in a reader like Excel, everything's going to be shift.

So you're going to have to fix that. So you got to figure out how to remove those commas and the messages,

or just figure out some sort of way so that nothing is going to be shifted so that you get rid of any overlap in the other columns.

So example, as we can see, if you look at row three, there was a comma in the message and said, hello comma, I'm happy to help you.

And if you look at the Excel version of tab, you can see that it ended up shifting it into the other column.

So then if you're searching for statuses, all of a sudden some of those are in column F instead of column.

So you got to make sure you fix that. And we talked about a class definition.

So it's what applies to every person that was affected or harmed in this particular action.

So we already talked about this. So the lawsuit starts off with individual plaintiff.

And then if the court approves in the class cert then it becomes a class action.

So your analysis and declarations in support of this.

So generally, what happens is when you're hired by a law firm to be an expert, they will tell you what the class definition is.

So in this particular case, an attorney told you that the class definition is this.

Every person on contact list dot csv that had a text message sent or delivered,

sent or delivered is important to them after being added to the DNC list.

So they put themselves on the DNC list. They said we don't want any calls and they were texted after that.

So that's very important. So you can accomplish your analysis however you want.

You could put everything into a database. You could use, you know, some sort of scripting Python, whatever you could try to do in Excel.

I probably would do it in Excel, but most people either do it in a database or they just script in some sort of way.

So the next couple of slides give you tips if you want to do the database method, you know, which is just one way to accomplish this analysis.

But no matter what method you choose, make sure you write down all the steps as you do them.

And if you end up creating a script, I want to have your script submitted so you'll submit everything in a zip.

So you know if you have a.py file or whatever. Make sure you include that.

And keep in mind on the Sunday I'm also going to be looking at your script.

So if there are any errors in there or any problems, you know, ask you about your script.

So if you're someone on the team and you weren't involved in writing that script,

make sure you all talk to each other and you all understand how the script works line by line,

because you might not have written the script, you might be the person that gets that question.

So keep that in mind.

So if you did the database method, you know you would import most sheets as different tables into a database after you fix the common issue.

You know you create a query or queries to create output.

So I would like that saved as a file called all text for class def dot csv.

So you would select everything from message list CSV and the contact list CSV,

where the phone number in the contact list is the same as the phone number in the message list.

The star is only delivered or sent, and the message sent date is later than the DNC added date.

Then normally I would give all of these directions, but I am being nice because, you know, you have a research paper you're working on.

You're doing this too, but in real life, just keep in mind an attorney is going to give you very limited instructions.

They're going to tell you the class definition if you have to figure it all out from there,

they're not going to tell you like okay, make sure you do it this way.

I'm just doing this because, you know, we have a little less time.

So I want everyone to be successful in this.

So the prior operations, all texture class stuff, CSP output should look kind of like this, obviously with many more results.

So you're basically kind of linking the data together as a phone number.

Message sent added the DNC, the date list, the message status, phone, first name, last name, age, state.

So you know all that. And then you want to figure out what, how many people uniquely were involved in this.

So you would do the first output you had by the phone number column and create a new CSV called Unique Class Members that CSV that only has the phone,

first name, last name, age, and state columns.

Does that make sense to everybody? So one sheet is going to be all of the phone numbers and all the calls where it was texted after the DNC list.

And then the second one, I just want the unique people. All right.

So again, deliverables to hand in all text for class text that contains all the messages.

And then you need class members dot CSV that contains the unique individuals that meet the definition that.

Listed in a steps document with every step and query, command, function, program, script, etc. that you use to create the two csvs listed above.

So if you do database and run all the queries, do the scripting.

Yeah, I want the entire script and all that. So if you're doing the database thing,

it'll make sure you know how to use load data locally and file command to get the csvs into the database of different tables.

You might also use the import function on MySQL workbench, but that doesn't always work as well.

Also, make sure that you're understanding if there are any line ending errors.

So raise your hand if you know what a line ending is.

Okay, so when you're doing data analysis,

some people might not realize that there are line endings called the carriage return line for things like that.

So if you were to open a document in notepad Plus plus and you click the function that says show symbols, it would show all the text on the line.

And then at the very end it would show you either CR or carriage return or line feed.

And you know, if you made something in Excel it might have CR and Lf if you made something in Linux it might only have lf.

So what happens sometimes is, is you might have documents where you know 5 or 6 different files.

And some of them are cross and some of them are only left.

And then what happens is, is it messes it up when it goes to the next line.

So it'll add extra space and it'll do all sorts of things. And then your queries or you know, working in programing, it's not going to match.

So the one thing you want to make sure is when you look at these evidence spreadsheets, you want to understand what the line endings are.

And especially if you do the database method when you do the local file ingestion, you have to specify how the fields are delimited.

So you know they delimited by comma. Are they delimited by a semicolon and they delimited by tab.

And you also have to specify the limit. If you put Elif and it's actually in SQL if you're going to get a whole bunch of errors.

So this is kind of part of normal data validation. So make sure you check that out.

So right now they are close.

But if you're going to do this in a database, you probably have to change it to LFS with notepad Plus plus or DOS to Unix or whatever you want to use.

Then you can use a tool like Notepad Plus Plus to view all the lines and symbols.

So just keep that in mind. Also, if you use the database method, make sure you import the dates correctly.

So there are a few things. String the date function date and time functions.

So databases want to receive dates in a certain format.

Sometimes your data might have it in a different format.

So it might be you know if it's European for example, maybe the month of the day is swapped out.

Maybe it has a timestamp that has minutes and seconds, things like that.

So it's called casting.

So if you have to upload anything into a database, a lot of the errors you will get will be based off of timestamp, you know considerations.

So if you get all these errors on the timestamp column, it's probably because you didn't put it into the right format.

So these two links will kind of tell you how to cast dates to the right format.

And then, you know, it doesn't matter so much here because this isn't a whole lot of data,

but a lot of times when I'm dealing with data, I mean, I might have 10 million rows, I might have 100 million rows.

And, you know, normally you would create indexes based off of, you know, something that would be unique.

So like Social Security number might be unique. Someone only has one Social security number.

But in data like this, you know, they're going to be multiples of the same phone number that are occurring.

But you might want to search by the phone numbers. So creating a non unique index on the phone number and the date columns ends up helping for speed.

So I could have let's say you know a 50 million row CSV that I ingest into a database.

And then maybe I ingest a 10 million row CSV into another database table.

And then I have to do joins. And you know, maybe I'm doing other queries if I don't create any sort of indexes and I hit enter.

It might take like a day for, you know, SQL to split out or spit out the results,

whereas just taking the time to create a non-unique index, then it might end up taking like five minutes.

So, you know, if you ever have a query that's taking forever, it's probably because you didn't set up index for.

All right in terms of de duping to get the unique people that are involved.

You can do that in SQL with Group II. You could do that part in Excel if you wanted to remove duplicates on that column,

but make sure that you spot check your two deliverable csvs against the data in the original contact list in message two files,

to make sure that you didn't modify any of the contents of the evidence.

So that's a real big way to get in trouble, understand?

You know, if you end up generating an output that actually modified the original data.

So make sure you keep that in mind. The declaration, as I mentioned, it should be on there right now.

It's in the week 11 module and canvas. So you use that as template.

And then for the presentation part, you'll create a PowerPoint with slides showing the following slide exhibits.

So you'll have the defendant's communications that you found and ever lost.

So this is that relevant evidence that you're looking for where they admitted the texting people on the DNC list.

So look at the rest of the evidence and the group project files.

So anything that's remotely related to illegally texting people, make sure you include.

Then I'll want a slide with the Twilio document because I'll ask you about that.

So make sure you understand the Twilio architecture.

I will want a screenshot on a slide of the bottom of your expert declaration, which displays the totals of your two results.

So totals for all the text numbers or all the text messages that happens and all of the unique people.

So basically your count from the first output sheet and your count from the second output sheet.

So I will want the top ten lines of the all texts on one slide.

And then I want the top ten lines of your unique people that will be on one slide.

As I said, I'll ask direct examination questions to introduce each slide's evidence, and then we'll do cross exam questions on those as well.

So everyone has to be prepared to introduce answer questions on all five exhibits and online students.

You'll need to have your camera on during your entire group's presentation.

So make sure you're in a quiet spot for that.

And then obviously points will be deducted for any group score for online students where a person does not do that.

Okay. And also I will mention if you're an online student, you know, aside from the slides and everything, don't try to reference anything else.

So don't have another screen up that might have potential answers or anything like that.

So, you know, the whole point of this in class, students, when you answer a question, I'll tell you in the room where the jury is.

So you should be directing all of your answers to the jury. So generally, the attorney asks you a question.

You look at the attorney, understand the question, answer to the jury.

So that's how that kind of works. For online students, just face or answer the questions.

All right. So for due dates the deliverables which again are the two outputs csvs the steps document or scripts or anything like that.

The declaration and the PowerPoint of the five exhibits are due Saturday,

April 18th by midnight and should be turned in by a single group member as a zip file.

So make sure to do that. And the in-class students, which are all of you.

You will present in class on 420. And then there will be no in-person class or recorded lecture in the next week,

because that's when we will be doing these presentations with the online students.

So how's that for online students? If you're online group, for some reason, if any member cannot present on 427 because you have some no conflict,

a sporting thing or something like that. Make sure you let me know as soon as possible so I can make alternate arrangements for that.

All right. So we got that. And then, you know, at some point I will provide kind of a timeline for it.

So in person students, you know, you really only have to show up maybe ten minutes before your time to present.

And then once you're done presenting, then you could go. So, you know, we're not going to watch each other's presentations.

So you just wait out, their group goes, then you're all good to go.

And then online students. Same deal. I'll be sending, uh, zoom links.

And then I'll give you specific times to make sure you join for that.

So Maria will be with us for those kind of helping me take notes,

because I'm playing the role of two attorneys and trying to grade everything and take notes like, that's kind of hard.

And last year we had, I think, 42 students in this class.

This year we have 63 total between in-person and online.

So we have some more groups. So make sure that you're on time because I want to go like group by group and kind of get through all this stuff.

So the last group we might end up going like slightly over time, but hopefully not if everybody's on time.

All right. Any questions on any of this so far? That makes sense.

So what I'd like to do now is I'd like to take about 15 minutes to meet with your group.

So find all of your fellow group members. And the first thing I want you to do is start by electing a group leader.

And I want that person to email me that they are the group leader.

So say, hey, this is me. I'm the group leader of group 2 or 3 or whatever.

Just so I know, I would like a grad student to be the group leader.

So just talk amongst yourselves and figure that out. Uh, see, I think I have to put the slide back on campus still.

So I'll do that in a moment. And it'll be under week 11.

And for online students or even in person students, when you're working on this, you can use whatever web sharing platform you'd like.

If you have any questions about the project, your first person should be Maria.

You know, she worked on this last semester. She knows all the details. Obviously, I'm available to anyone who has any questions.

All right. So go ahead and get in your groups. Talk amongst yourselves.

Yeah. You can start talking about maybe distributing things like figure out group leaders and all of that you.

Could use in a press release.

I'm just kind of right group. Is here.

Oh, sure. Thank you. If you know.

Somebody you know. I don't know if you guys will ever use this tool or group five.

Uh, yeah. Uh. Over there.

Shall we? Okay. Got it. 6.9.

So. Everybody here.

We need a group leader. Oh, okay.

I'm an undergrad, so I'm kind of automatically out. Okay.

Oh, thank. You.

I think so. Yeah. I was in a rush to get here.

Are you ready to go? Thank you.

Regrets? You know, and I think that's what you're. That's quite rare.

Yes. I mean, I'm not sure. Go ahead.

Yeah, I don't want to hear about that.

All right. I don't mind.

No, I think. I think you're right.

You know, I have a word and. I'm sorry.

I feel like I got.

So excited. I love spreadsheets. I've.

Yeah. It was not easy to decide. I didn't have this great, but, uh.

But useful. Do you like that?

I think it's okay. It's okay. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, uh, whatever it is that we can make a list or something, but these are.

People on the right side that we can be focused on.

Just a bigger. Yeah. We have enough time to get up and bring it up.

Supposed to be an expert all day. Yeah. That's true.

I think you're only just letting that, you know, like, is it is an important decision.

How are you going to communicate what you saw?

Okay. So just scenery and things. Like that.

Yeah. That's right. Okay.

So I think you know how to do that. Yeah.

Uh, I need. To.

You have to make sure you get that. Uh, let me get a good talk with you on the subject.

Yeah. Yeah.

Just to add a little bit of scripting. If you ask me.

If you ask me, it's obvious. That you're doing something with this.

I can do that. Yeah. Um.

Let's do. This.

You need to go and see what you like.

Ideally, what I was thinking. Just. And just so everybody knows, I did upload the slides.

So under week 11, now we have the slides. You need to pull those up to reference anything declarations up there.

The group project instructions are up there too. If you don't like the responses of those.

That we like because I think I'll go into. That all we did.

Was we get privacy and then that way whatever you do.

Choose as the documentation.

Yes, ma'am. Yes, please. Data frames.

Yeah. So. Yeah. So yeah, you should try to link those are down to actually get it done.

So for the week you're like by the 11:00 that way.

So, uh. I'm sorry. Yeah. I chose to do that. Yeah. I was like, oh, I can't read or something like that.

I didn't really have time to dedicate. Just if you want to do your work or let me just check it was in 5 to 3.

Weeks to do. It's super nice. Um, I worked on it because I think it will.

Okay. So I think it might be like. Yeah, like, maybe we should really just.

Go through, like, before, right after class or break time or some separate third option before the class.

Lets you know that what you said.

And they needed to have some greenhouse. Gases.

So I guess I'm not sure I.

Can say this, but it's. Probably somewhere in some stuff.

Not unlike everything. This is gonna be helpful to us.

And also working on things a lot easier for us.

Thank you so much. So I'm just going to keep going so I know what to say because this is just as easy for you.

All right. I just I mean, it's just, you know, just means like, you know, you do analysis saying, you know, not the only thing you understand.

Oh, I just don't have words.

So we also have to raise. Issues about this, not mine.

So if you remove it and it doesn't go, that's all that is mine.

So anyway. Yeah. So, um, as a result of this. Okay.

Here. It is.

Let's take a look at it. I think you. Have the card that.

We have. So let's take this off of this. So this is now that I have the time to understand that we can use.

This as a heads up. I want to chime in with business acumen on Tuesday.

So I will be running it here like hey guys. And then running out.

Okay, so it'll be a little crazy.

I guess I'll be like my dog. That's what you're supposed to be like, even if it will only be here because I'm not.

This is. Good, she said.

Uh. Uh.

Uh uh. Oh, yes.

You are something to get acquainted. Yes. This is the Symposium series.

Do you have a story about 60 minutes. This is a work in progress.

I don't think so. Yeah, I just I don't know what it's like for them.

I'm assuming it's the four new profiles. And it seems in my life I am you, I see you, I pray for you.

And death. That's a lot of keys, isn't it?

It's a blessing. I just got asked. Yeah.

I'll be right back. It's all right. Some of it is a puzzle, but I guess because it's his church.

I'd like to get one of the students in our group that's been absent.

That's absolutely right.

That's all right. The high school alum here.

So I would just contact that person and get expectations.

Part of the reason is to be more like larger.

I made sure to distribute them so that they're 60% doesn't mean less than we're trying to figure out how it's going to reach out to him.

But if he does something like that, probably.

But if for some reason there is a situation where my mom doesn't provide it.

You won't be the only lawyer on this class once again.

Uh, next week is going to be in person and just say when we do the presentation,

it was my first one will be here, and the next week will just be on my presentation.

So you guys still have to come in. Come on.

Uh, another thing. Uh, so I worked with my project.

I implemented the looks. Don't. You think I should work on anything else for this project?

I don't advisor on that project. I do, but he's really like you.

Did a good job. I for for him.

It's already finished, you know, so I just. Yeah.

So I mean, unfortunately, I'm super busy, but if you can send me like a very concise email, check this out.

Like, you know, I won't have time to go through, like, an entire project.

But if you send me a concise email, like, here's what I put together so far.

Here's the overall goal of my project. Here's what it looks like.

Are there anything that could be answered like I can I work on that?

Thank you for that. Yeah. I was going to try.

I was like, oh, I just saw such a so good to see that it was better call Saul in this letter and replace this letter.

But but he's against. Yes. Oh. And he's not politically correct.

Like he's voting right. He's like, that is an easy job.

Every single study for tagging should also apply to all.

Okay, I kind of like that. And then we can address and then uh, intellectually, which is just that you have a couple that you can just take on the.

Other side. We'll get like that. And then I don't want to see a world in which.

She does it because then we have to.

Do what you think. I, I don't think the problem is I think it's also like for the average is using it to come back up to me.

Um, a shared I like to work. Um, I don't know anything on that one schedule, but every day there's no need to fix to anything that you.

Oh my God, there is.

Yeah. There's a lot of, like, um, there's like a shared like.

Just a lot of people are going to say. I don't think I found it.

Justice Hutchings did not.

Despair. So he say thank you, dad. But you just see what happens to the kids out of those two houses for.

Yourself. Uh, do you want it?

Yeah. Okay, I get it.

Class action lawsuits are huge losses. That's right.

That's why the homeless expert declaration says that they serve half of all the right to register.

Actually, it's not like commercial to a class action.

I tell you what, it's not just about, you know, it's all against letters.

And then after they've. Sent or sent or received texts about it.

Important work experience. Oh.

That's it. So. A lot of work to deal with.

We're doing something right now.

It's not. That's up to you.

And as part of Stokes analytics. To track this, he's likely to take that position.

Which one of the text messages and have to be added to. So you can use over a month to just get all the right to use the search tools.

Exactly. So you just got to look for that.

You kind of just have to go for it. Find the that image for any mention of you.

We're going to send the messages and she your she gets all the processing.

To get. I'm not sure where to go.

I. Still call.

That's you know about some of these are expressions okay.

Okay. Every. Year or so it gets back to work in the context of the summer holiday movies.

All right, so take about two more minutes to wrap up and to talk within your group about

how you're going to meet in the future and then or pick up lecture again.

I think that's probably a great time of the.

You make good on this? Good? Yeah. I think you should check that you're in there.

Because if I didn't, you can't prove anyone's right.

You are. So I think. Yeah, if you did, it's good, you know?

Yeah, but it won't. I've never been to this, especially since I was great.

I think the reason I was raised, um, if I have decisions like that, I like it over this.

I have two different. Types of.

Just look at it.

You. See?

So much. Everybody, let's go ahead and take your seats again.

Didn't you. Hear me clarify that.

That's. Just my.

Happy customer service history.

Okay. Real quick I'm going to call roll. Just give me an audible here.

And I have, uh, rain. You want?

To see Karen. If Jessie.

Is right for you. Madame Académie Karen initiative.

Kanika, you are in. You've given.

Me? Uh, Alec.

Max. Here and now. Yes. Right up to mayor.

Yes. Jeremiah. Yeah. Mohammed. Address.

Cedric. Asher. Yeah.

Jacob. You're right. Daniel.

You are in. Yes, I am here.

Shinji. Yeah. Welcome.

In. Priscilla. Yeah. Right here.

Okay, so as I mentioned, I put the slides up and everyone needs to send me the group leader.

I also added a note on there. You know, make sure that you don't use AI to try to do your analysis.

For one, I is very much wrong on this, so you really can't trust it to give you correct accounts for all the great things that generative AI can do.

For some reason it can not count numbers well. So for one, don't do it because it's going to be inaccurate.

But also don't do it because I want you to understand how to actually create either a script or understand how to do the database.

So you'll know how to do this in real life. All right. So I uploaded the slides.

I might modify the slides later depending on how much we covered today.

Just to kind of switch over between today and next week.

But yeah I will never touch. All right.

So we'll go ahead and see how far we can get into the next lecture.

So what we'll do is we'll take about ten minutes.

We'll go through some of the lecture stuff. We'll take a 15 minute break.

You know, you can work in your groups a little more. Just take a break whatever you want to do, and then we'll keep going into next week's lecture.

So before I pull up next week for ten minutes, just a reminder.

So your research paper is due in two weeks on April 6th.

And just remember it's prior the class start at 625.

It's not by midnight that day. So your bibliography submissions have been graded quite a while ago.

So you have all that. And again, the deliverables on your project with your assigned group is due Saturday or 18 before midnight.

And then I'll look through it all at 419. If one of your group members wasn't available in class today, make sure that you email them.

If you have a situation where a group member or just isn't participating or is not responding.

So make sure that the group leader emails me so I'm aware of that.

But ultimately, I mean, we've had classes before where we only had four people per group and that's, you know, that's a fine group size.

So most people have about 5 or 6 people in your group.

So if you do have a situation where there's a student that isn't going to participate, you know, it's not going to negatively affect you.

But I want to know that that's the case.

So generally if that happens, it might be someone that's thinking about, you know, dropping the class and they're not going to participate at all.

Obviously, if you, you know, are working with a student and you assign them something and they're just not doing the work,

so the group leader should let me know. But I've never had a problem with that.

Everyone's very responsible in terms of that. So before we get into the start of next week's lecture, any questions at all on this project.

Yeah. Being of was as Davis 17. Yeah okay.

Yeah. So just send me an email. So I know the group leaders are any other questions on the project.

Yeah. So, yeah, it's a fun project. And, you know, I've gotten a lot of good feedback.

People really like the the mock trial and kind of going through, like, it'll keep you on your toes and it's, it's a good thing to go through.

So you'll be prepared if you have to testify in a deposition at some point in your life or new trial, or maybe you want to get into this industry.

So pull up the next week's slides real quick.

Uh, it's. Well. Okay, so getting into week 12 presenting evidence in courts.

So objectives here. Go ahead and give those a quick read. Do.

And so we want to cover all of this this week.

We'll cover part of it. I'll keep track of what slides we had tonight. But overall we're going to talk about terms and concepts related to testify.

We'll talk about witness preparation and ethical considerations in that regard.

We'll talk about kind of strategies and structure for testifying in a deposition,

which is very much different than the strategy you'd use to testify at a trial.

So we'll talk about both those.

And then next week we'll spend a little bit more time on kind of in-class exercises and watching videos and all that kind of stuff.

So getting into the terms and concepts for a little bit before we take a break.

So there are two types of trials. So in a bench trial who determines the outcome.

The judge. The judge. So at the other bench trial, the judge decides.

And a jury trial, obviously, the jury decides the outcome.

No, the defendant always has a constitutional right to a jury trial.

So they can always pick that. Or they could pick a bench trial.

You know, there are different strategies that the defendant in terms of, you know, which one you want to use.

Sometimes if it's a very emotional based trial or issue at hand, you know,

a defendant might choose a bench trial because they don't want to have sympathy from the jury,

or they don't want to have greater damages that the jury might, you know, award versus a more potentially neutral judge.

So it just kind of there's different strategies for that. So we talked about it a second ago.

But what are the two types of examinations in a trial.

If cross examination and single examination. So cross examination is one.

What's the other one called? Start of the day. Yeah.

Direct examination. So in a direct examination this is where the attorney that called you.

So let's say you're an expert for the plaintiff. So the whole reason that people testify in a trial is to get evidence admitted.

The attorneys can't really talk about the case without witnesses, except for two times in the trial.

What are the two times in the trial that the attorney actually gets to talk about the case?

Anybody know some all of the trial TV shows or movies you watch?

So what happens in the very beginning? What's the first thing that happens?

Opening statements and opening statements. And what happens at the very end of the closing statements?

So in general, the attorney will give the opening statement, you know, they'll talk about the case.

They'll say, you know, here's what we're going to tell you about the case.

And then they'll kind of try to front anything bad that the prosecution's going to say.

They'll say, well, the prosecutor in a couple minutes, you know, they're going to get out here and they're going to say all these bad things about,

you know, the plaintiff and keep an open mind, like, you know, this happened, this didn't happen.

Whatever. So they go through all of that until closing statements.

The only way that you're getting evidence into a trial is having it admitted through witnesses.

So that's why we have witnesses. So, you know, if the plaintiff ends up starting, you know,

they would basically have called their first witness, then they would do a direct examination.

So that's where they try to get the evidence admitted. And then the whole person of the witness is to talk about that evidence.

So it's more of a narrative where the attorney will direct open ended questions to their own witness that they call to testify.

So, you know, say, tell me about your educational background.

Tell me about your work background. Those are open ended questions.

And again, they'd ask the question, you know, the witness would look at the attorney, make sure they understand the question.

You want to pause for about five seconds before you talk.

Why do you want to do that? Now it's two reasons.

To think before you say anything. Yeah, that's one reason. Let's see other reason.

What is the other side doing while you're testifying objectively?

Objectively. So you have to give a little bit of time just in case there's an objection.

So, you know, especially when you're on cross-examination, you want to give, you know,

extra time because, you know, your attorney might objected and not want you to answer that question.

Whereas if you just all of a sudden answer right away and you don't give any time,

then you might have answered a question that you wouldn't have had to have answered otherwise.

So that's direct examination. The only time the cross-examination style questions which are closed, questions like,

you know, a leading question like, isn't it true that you did this and this on this date?

That's a yes or a no. The only time that you're able to lead the witness and ask cross-examination style questions on

direct is if the attorney request to treat their own witness as hostile and the judge approves.

What would be a situation where a witness might be hostile?

It might be easier to think about criminal case. They might also get in trouble.

Yeah, that could be it. So maybe they're in trouble and, you know, they might see you, like I plead the fifth or, you know, not one answer.

What's another reason? And so if that's the case.

Yeah. Could be potentially to sabotage the case. So maybe someone bought them off.

Maybe in a criminal case, you know, it's against the Mafia.

And the Mafia ended up finding this witness and said, you know, if you testify about me, you know, someone's going to break your legs, for example.

So then once the attorney starts asking these questions and then the person starts answering completely differently,

you know, they'll say, well, wait a minute. Like when we were in my office two weeks ago, you answered the question completely the opposite, you know.

And the person would say, no, this is my answer.

And then at that point, the attorney would approach the judge and say, permission to treat this witness is hostile.

And then if the judge ends up approving, then now you can give cross-examination style questions to your own witness.

So you could say, well, you just said this, but isn't it true that two weeks ago you told me that,

you know, this person did actually assault this person at this particular time on this particular day?

So that's how that works. So that's direct examination.

And then cross-examination,

which we just talked about is where the opposing attorney asked very pointed or specific questions that suggest a yes or a no answer.

So putting the words in the mouth of someone. So isn't it true that it's happened?

You know, wouldn't you say that why it happened? So those kind of questions.

So we'll go into that more in a bit. So at 745 let's go ahead and take our 15 minute break.

And then we'll pick back up at 8:00. So there are a number of pieces of advice.

Here, which I read in the program, which.

I just. Noticed that.

You. Could.

Take this. You know, just ask me questions on the screen.

And get a message. And I was like, thank you. And she was like, oh, why did you have these wrong houses?

And there's a lot of places right past the direct where the detectives let us go back.

And then the beautiful thing is that in this state, these two of these.

In class systems, you know, I'll have to look and see if you actually.

Because I hear, I don't know what's brightest so gender.

And so I'll look into it and see if that person actually is a in person student is just choosing to watch online or what the deal is so that,

you know, I don't know, I mean, look and understand.

Yes, yes. But that seems like it was very and that's something that we set out in the.

First section. And so, you know, you can reply and say that, you know, professor, you noticed you were in the in person section.

So I mean, most of the time you're going to work on it outside of class.

So it's probably should be fine for that. But yeah, just, you know, go ahead and let him know that.

Was there any problems. Just let me know okay. So let's.

Go. Next to the people and the people that have been assigned to the next two weeks are like, we're big.

We are here every day.

So it's not like that for me.

I still get this. Yeah, yeah.

But you are able to present. Yes.

It's in two weeks. I can do that. Uh, yeah. Uh, 20th.

I will be in class and everything will be coming out next week, I suppose.

Okay. So that's. That's all. Yeah. Just send me an email too. So I didn't like that.

We really did get through in general. Any of is going to be played every single weekend.

That's fine. If you like, you know, because it gets pretty loud.

So you guys are doing, you know, uh, auditorium sometimes the.

Situation. Is out and then running back.

Okay. That's what I was doing. Good luck with your um, yeah, I will, Emily.

All right. Thank. You.

And that means that whatever, uh, shifting of. Course, you know, for questions or concerns over.

The last 48 hours. I know, like, you know, this this is a direct program.

So, like, is it going to be like, okay.

There's no limit to paragraphs, but I would like within paragraphs to kind of keep it to that or just.

Yeah. Because it's just it's difficult to read if you have too many in a single paragraph.

So yeah, multiple paragraphs are. Definitely types of stories, you know, and then just going to about it just to bring in people.

As well. But you know, it was because basically she was like, oh, like somebody offered me something that was really, really, really cool.

Yeah. And then the state prosecutor was like. We're all.

Going to play this again and be like, okay.

Like it doesn't mean I want to like it.

Doesn't use it because it doesn't go like there's so many years turning points for him until he looks up and all of a sudden,

because the minute you cheated, you know.

So as I continue to say that the guys, these guys like last week and this was like, I didn't know what to tell this peak, I can't imagine it's a fact.

It's just a tiny, tiny piece.

You're saying that they connect the two hours. He's just watching this guy game one time.

It's just like, okay, we're here. We go now. And then my sneak peak.

And it was. It was.

And then it just, like, pulled into the parking lot because you're in the dark because you're coming and like, there's like footage of definitely car.

There's a moment where he tries like he was just like, has a friend just like, not to worry about you.

People are going back to Joseph's group.

And this place is so sad because Peter was talking about how he would go back.

To dinner. This of time, they go back to Joseph's apartment.

So just like marble, he says.

But just outside was very small.

And he was like that because he's never been in that situation. He just completed it.

It was, it was. The promise of the desert Awakens.

We could see very well. We continue to.

Look towards the College of Jesus. Christ is reaching out to assist for the closing of his box in our life.

Etc. and this. Is all things.

That Jesus. Is all.

Jesus Christ in the Gospels is just like the old.

Days. I believe out, but symptomatically.

Basically the same thing. This is like the Peters.

Like I had that in me. And it just is like you're going to help me clean this up.

So if you scare me like I know you're taking me out because this woman has died.

Just died. And like, that was quick to, like, come inside the house.

And it's just like, I think it's a big lie.

I've never seen. Anything like it.

It's just that, you know, it's out there, like Genesis.

Also like. So I'm going to use pixels like this because I have to do this stuff.

It's just here. To say thank you to everybody because basically because he she I think.

She's like she's it was so hard to prove like not someone who's a kid.

She's like I mean he was like so like I love it because I do because I can like just far as what I thought she was of the pieces because.

Well, I mean, you know, to all the people like us.

I just I get it, you know, it's.

Oh it says which is specific and so and then all.

I think Peter is also like. How do we do that?

I mean, it is it is exciting, but I think you need it because it's like is always this is until 360 like pieces.

Of coca. And even the took over the hills and it was sort.

Of a nurture. Thing because a little while it.

Was his colleagues, his friends to be like this is this, you know, like this is part of our history.

So then when they stepped in like 2012 to get that.

The state of the of stainless steel, they call it that.

It's just. But you. Wouldn't even suppose that's not just.

You should be just a little bit.

Yeah. For example, if.

You don't have the capacity. I didn't keep it secret.

It seems. Like he had similar experiences, tools and techniques along with us.

Like, try the political spear, but you catch it again.

I was just going to be like this.

This case. It sounds like something you can see here.

I was getting wireless desperately. Trying to also businesses.

But they said, okay, this one because we're going to sequence as much as you want them to take over.

In case of Bristol case. Before it gets sent out.

So yeah. Yeah.

But yeah, I am blessed. With a few hundred people in the early 90s to emphasize the classic geography of things that I really appreciate.

So I think this is only for them though.

What you. See here is great.

Thank you so much.

Um. Uh, yeah. Just like the classic TV series.

But the name of the day, I was like, I suppose I will say this thing about the idea that someone.

Left a class for me was, I think, in a week, because he doesn't say that.

I think it was only a handful of these other guys like, yeah.

I think it was because like I said.

That's what was it because he is supposedly several members of the House and.

He can type in such a short. Term game.

And that is how he said, yeah, I went to school and I really thought about it, but that's what he did.

You. Know?

Yeah. Because I think the nation wants to do what I was able to do that once a time, but it was like a thing.

And they just asked me first. So if you're interested in your career.

Then I'll give it to.

You. Okay, let's go ahead and get started here for a.

Little chat. Uh, so we talked about direct examination and cross examination.

So in terms of, uh, types of case testimony.

So as I talked about, depositions are quite a bit different from trials regarding strategies that you're going to use.

But testimony for trial and for depositions, both are considered under oath.

So if you lie in a deposition, you could be in trouble for committing perjury.

Usually in a deposition, testimony is outside the presence of a judge.

Yep. Um. Is there what happens if you can't prove that the person applied?

Uh, so if one side said they were lying and then told the judge, maybe, you know, they're lying to you.

They're your witness. Um, but we don't have any real evidence that they're lying.

Yeah, that it's really a generous call. So the judge is the ultimate arbiter in situations like that.

So, you know, one side says this person's lying, and it ends up being a perjury charge.

It's really up to the judge. So the judge has full discretion for, you know, contempt, perjury, anything like that.

So I mean, if, if you're late to court, like even an attorney, if the attorneys leave the court,

the judge has description or discretion to, like, have a contempt citation so they could charge them different things like that.

So good question. If the judge figures that up. So the majority of the questions in a deposition are by opposing counsel is cross-examination.

So the rules of evidence do not apply.

Attorneys can ask questions to elicit information in the deposition that may be inadmissible at trial and in a trial when you're testifying.

So the question is asked, you take the five seconds, think about your answer, and then before you answer, there could be an objection.

You have to wait until the judge decides, you know, if they're going to let you talk or you don't have to answer.

So in a deposition, it's a little bit different.

People are objecting, but they're only really objecting for the record,

which could be a case if it ends up being on appeal almost every time, regardless of the objection in a deposition.

You still have to answer. So you kind of get used to having that same pause to, you know, someone asks the question, the other side objects,

the court reporter, your stenographer puts it on the record, and then you answer the question.

The only time you don't answer a question is deposition is if the attorney representing you says, like, don't answer that.

And that doesn't happen very often.

You know, like, I've only had a couple times where the attorney told me, like specifically, don't answer that question.

So it could be about something that might be privilege, you know, things like that.

So there are certain questions in a deposition they can't really ask you.

And some of that could be work product. So for me, you know, I work at a law firm.

So when I'm working with the attorneys, as long as there's an attorney involved, you know, that's attorney work product.

So people can't ask me about that. They can ask me, you know, did you meet with anyone about the case?

You know, how much time did you spend on it? But they can't ask about what we talked about.

So that could be an example of, you know, a refusal. So that comes up pretty often.

But aside from that, you know, it's a little bit rare to not actually answer a question in a deposition.

So in a trial. Same thing is testimony before a judge or a jury during a trial.

That's all under oath. And then the direct and cross-examination amounts may be close to equal.

So backing up a second. So in a deposition you're really just being cross-examined the whole time.

So the cross-examination happens first.

And then when you're done, your attorney has the opportunity to ask you additional questions just to get on the record.

So if your attorney thought that, you know you did a good job, you answer all the questions, well,

you know, nothing was, you know, confused or any there no confusion about any of the topics.

When you're done being kind of cross-examined in the deposition.

It might just be over. But if the other side maybe they asked you something and you answered and it wasn't the full answer that you wanted to give,

then it's called cleaning it up.

So your attorney might say, you know, we're going to take a five minute break, and then we just want to clean up a couple of things.

So then they'll say, you know. Mr. Attorney had asked you these questions.

You gave this answer. But I think, you know, you might have one to expand on your answer a little bit.

Can you go ahead and do that? And then you have that opportunity to kind of clear things up.

So in during a deposition you can take a break, you know whenever you need to.

So when you take a break, generally you'll end up talking with your attorney and they might say like, okay, this is going well.

Like, you know, make sure we go like they talked about this particular thing,

you know, make sure that you're very clear in your answers, like things like that.

You know, the attorney can't prep you for what you're going to say.

Like they can't say like, say this specifically, but they can prep you kind of how the structure is going to work.

And when you're in a deposition, you know, some of the first questions they'll ask is like, you know, tell me about your preparation.

And for me, since I work in a law firm, they can't get into that.

If you're just hired as an outside expert, you know, they can potentially get into your preparation,

and they want to try to get you to say that the attorneys told you what to say and told you what your opinion should be.

So you have to be very clear that, yeah, you know, I met with the attorney.

We met for an hour. You know, these attorneys were involved, like they, you know,

walked me through the structure of the deposition, gave me the topics we would talk about,

you know, and then they might say, well,

isn't it true that your attorney actually told you to give this particular opinion and you say, no, it's not true.

So those are kind of some of the things that will happen. So just keep in mind it's kind of backwards in the deposition.

You're cross-examined. Then you have an opportunity to do more direct questions and clean it up in a trial.

It's the opposite. So your attorney does the direct examination.

Then you have the cross-examined by the opposing counsel. Does that make sense?

Yeah. And directing cross-examinations in a trial are pretty close to equal.

Like you'll be on the stand with your attorney for quite a while, and then cross-examination will usually be equal every once in a while.

If the opposing counsel is kind of intimidated by you, or they think you're a really good witness,

they might not ask you any questions because it might hurt their case.

So in situations like that, you know you might not have anything.

But if they are going to ask, generally it's equal.

Or they might just say if they're a little afraid of your testimony, they might say, well, let me just ask you one question or something like that.

So in a case at trial, rules of evidence do obviously apply.

So we have that and types of witnesses.

You know we have expert witnesses we've talked about all throughout the class that are giving opinions.

So the fact the witness is just talking about the facts, an expert witness is giving opinions based on their expertise and scientific,

technical or other specialized knowledge in the subject matter area.

And we talked about this quite a few times. Testimony is based on sufficient facts.

The principles and methods they use being reliable and repeatable.

So another expert should be able to repeat the exact same experiment,

and then the principle and methods are being reliably applied to the facts of the case.

And expert witnesses are used in civil and in criminal courts.

And if one side wants to challenge a witness, what's that called?

What kind of challenge starts with already? Yep the Dow.

So if one side wants to basically say I don't think this is qualified, then it would be a.

But the actual so expert witnesses are subjected to a great level of judicial scrutiny.

So if the opposing side requests Adalbert hearing, they're asking the judge in the case to consider some certain factors.

So it could be whether the theory or technique in question can and has been tested.

So is this something that, you know, DNA analysis.

It's been used in tons of criminal cases.

So that's obviously like been tried and trust and tested over various amounts of time.

But sometimes it might be a case of this is brand new.

Like no expert has really done this before. So it could potentially be thrown out because of that.

You know, maybe it hasn't been tried and tested in the past.

The judge ends up figuring that out. But obviously, like at some point something is going to be new for the first time.

So maybe the judge will end up letting it in, you know, in terms of criminal cases.

There used to be a lot of, uh, lie detector testimony, you know, from the lie detector operator.

And then they realized that know that isn't really accurate a lot of the time.

So now they don't really do lie detectors in terms of criminal cases,

because they've proven that it's not as accurate as it should be to a standard for a court of law.

So another sort aspect for a Daubert challenge, you know, whether the research or methods have been subjected to peer review and publication.

So that's an aspect. No. Is there a known or potential error in the analysis that's being performed?

You know, the existence and maintenance of standards,

controlling the operation and then whether it's attracted widespread acceptance within a relevant scientific community.

So if you're a digital forensic analyst or examiner, you know, they might look at did you use reputable industry tools?

You know, if you're using something like EnCase or Ftk.

I mean, those have been used or ways those have been used in a lot of cases.

So it's easy to say, you know, this tool has been used in thousands of legal cases.

You know, there have been papers written about them like the federal government list, you know, testing these tools.

But occasionally it might be a situation where you wrote the tool.

So then if you wrote the tool, you have to be able to back it up, you know, was it tested?

Was it peer reviewed at all? And if it hasn't, then, you know, the judge could potentially throw out your testimony.

So just keep that in mind. All right. So we have that.

And you know Daubert could be called before someone even testifies.

So there could be a challenge. And the judge might rule that, you know, this person can't testify in the trial at all.

Or it might be a case of the expert gets on the stand and then right away, opposing counsel, you know, says, I'm going to challenge.

And then they basically kind of go through a cross-examination before they're even allowed to testify.

And next week we'll watch a video that has an example of that happening.

So aside from expert witnesses, what did we say? And the other type of witnesses?

That doesn't give an opinion. Yep, a fact witness.

So a fact witness is also known as a lay witness.

So this is someone that isn't giving an opinion.

There's no science behind it. They just have personal knowledge of the facts of the case.

And they testify about things that they personally observed or things they were told to do.

So, you know, in some of these cases where I'm just basically calculating damages, like I testified in a trial about,

you know, the number of, uh, people that had purchased in-app tokens for gambling apps.

And I got all the data from the various play stores like Google Play, Apple Store, Amazon, uh, Facebook and all that stuff.

And I was just the attorneys told me what calculations they wanted and I ran them.

So in that case, I wasn't giving an opinion. I was just merely a fact witness.

So, you know, aside from not giving opinions, you know, that's a situation where I can't be challenged.

So someone can't challenge me based off of that because I'm not giving an opinion.

All right, so Federal Rules of Evidence rule 701 says that a fact witness can only offer an

opinion if it results from a process of reasoning familiar in everyday life.

So a lay witness could testify that they observed a substance that looked like blood.

Because they've seen blood in their life. They know it's red, it's liquid, you know, all that kind of stuff.

But they could not testify about bruising around eyes is indicative of skull trauma.

That would require expert testimony of someone that had proper medical training.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So fact witnesses, just like expert witnesses, are used in civil and criminal courts.

And it is possible for the same witness to provide expert testimony and lay testimony in a single case.

So, you know, I've actually, in a single case, been called as a fact witness for part of the case and an expert witness for part of the case.

So that can't happen to other types of witnesses.

In criminal cases, you have an eye witness. So someone that you know is at the scene of the crime, they saw an alleged crime or a facet of it.

What is a character witness? What do they do? They know the relevant person's character?

Yeah. Anything to add on to that?

I mean, as opposed to like, they know them from experience, like in their lives, just to talk about whether they're a good person or not.

Yeah. And what part of a criminal trial does a character witness generally testify?

Well, no. Yeah. It gives you sort of profiling the check they're sending to you.

Uh, in crimes in general. Yeah. So there's actually 2 to 2 times.

So. Good. So that could be one of them. And then what?

What is the situation where a character witness could be called at the very end of a trial?

Yep. Sentencing. Yeah. For sentencing. So, you know, you're convicted of murder, and the judge might have discretion for sentencing you.

So, you know, you being charged, it could be a situation where maybe it's life in prison and there's no discretion.

But maybe it's a lower time, like it was murder to, you know, murder without intent.

And maybe the judge has discretion where they could sentence you from 15 years to life.

So, you know, the jury finds you guilty, then the next, you know, court situation you're in is the sentencing hearing.

So then generally, you'll have character witnesses, you know, that would tell the judge, like, this person's a great person.

I've known this person for years. They've never done anything like this before.

You know, blah blah blah kind of goes down the line for that.

And if it's someone who's never been an offender before, the judge might look at that testimony and might have some sympathy and say,

okay, you know, like we'll give you the 15 year minimum.

Or the judge might say, I think this is a bunch of B.S. and this is a terrible person, and I'm going to get that life in prison.

So that can end up happening. But, you know, anything that happens could potentially be appealed.

So, you know, the appellate court might look back and look at some of the testimony from character witnesses.

So all that ends up being on the record just like any other testimony.

All right. And both of these witness tapes. So eyewitnesses and character witnesses.

Those are mainly used in criminal cases and not in severe cases.

All right. What is an exhibit? What does that mean?

Yeah. Um, it's, um, they bring up a piece of evidence during a trial.

So let me turn it into something a little bit like a video.

Yeah, yeah. So any evidence that is admitted into a trial and then a witness is going to testify about it.

That's going to be an exhibit.

So when you all make your slide presentations, you're basically going to be talking about exhibits that were admitted in court.

So a physical or documentary piece of evidence that's identified with a sticker that contains a particular number and or letter.

So it's a murder case. You know, it might be a gun.

So the gun would be in a clear plastic bag and it might be exhibit, you know, C two or whatever it is.

So then that's how it's referred to throughout the trial.

So exhibits must be provided to other parties in the case and filed with the court prior to trial.

So, you know, if it's a written exhibit or something that's going to be shown on the court projector.

Obviously both sides have to be able to look at that.

Sometimes during a trial, someone will try to admit a new piece of evidence, and the other side will say, well, I never received that in discovery.

You know, this is a discovery violation. And then the side that's admitting it might say, well, we just found this out last night.

You know, someone slipped a note under our door that, you know, said they saw this happen.

We found this person and all that. If it's a case of physical evidence, like, maybe it's, you know, I don't know, blood evidence, for example.

The state might test that for DNA and then match it to the suspect, though that same blood has to be handed over to the defense as well,

so they can call their own experts and they can test it and see if it matches.

And then those experts can kind of battle, you know, not directly, but both experts will be cross-examined to see,

you know, ultimately the judge will decide who is correct and if it's a bench trial.

But in a jury trial, the jury will decide who they think is more reputable and believable in that case.

So it's their needs. Their attorneys, excuse me, must authenticate exhibits to be able to show the judge its origin.

And that hasn't been altered. So that's a big thing with digital evidence.

You know, make sure you have hashes that you can prove the evidence hasn't been altered in any sort of way.

All right, and exhibits are presented to witnesses, which can be used to lay the foundation for admission.

And, you know, the judge will ultimately decide if evidence is going to be admitted.

Usually all the evidence is kind of presented to the court before the trial actually happens.

Or it might be on the first day of trial. So I think I told you guys before, you know, the first time I testified, I was just sitting there.

You know, it was during jury selection or right before jury selection.

I didn't think I'd have to testify at all.

But, you know, the attorneys that we're talking about, the evidence like, is highly technical, and they weren't explaining it in the best way.

And then the judge said, uh, five minutes. I want Mr. Davis to get on the stand.

And I had to do that. And the whole reason was to see if my evidence could be admitted.

And during that same trial, I think I testified over like three days.

On the second day, an issue had popped up where they wanted to know about if the phone numbers involved were tied to businesses instead of people,

because there are different rules for the tcpa for business covers.

So, you know, the night after my second day of testimony basically went back to my hotel room and I had my laptop,

and I had to perform all this analysis and create another exhibit.

They tell you guys about this at all, you know? So, you know, I was already tired from testifying all day.

And then I went to dinner and I had talked to the attorneys about strategy.

And then they were, you know, saying, we need a whole new piece of evidence.

So, you know, at some point it was, I don't know,

maybe 233 in the morning and I was burnt out and I wasn't I was doing spot checks and the spot checks weren't matching.

And I knew that there was something I was doing that was incorrect.

So I told the attorneys, you know, that we are kind of like, you know, videoing back and forth is like, I have to go to sleep.

Like, I'm gonna go to sleep. I'll figure this out in the morning and then thought, I'll go to the court.

So I woke up at 5 a.m. Yeah, I had a little bit of sleep.

I figured out, oh, this was the error. It's like some validation error.

Fixed it. Everything matched. It was great. Jumped in the shower.

I threw my clothes on. Literally ran to court as federal court, you know, got through the US marshals, ran up there, got called to the stand,

had to basically, you know, be cross-examined about this evidence I had literally just made.

And then it ended up getting admitted. And then I had to talk about it. So yeah, that was highly stressful.

So sometimes things like that can happen, but usually a lot of evidence is is has admitted before the case actually goes to trial.

So you don't have stressful situations there like that. All right.

And attorneys on both sides will argue whether, you know, to have evidence admitted or denied.

So you have that. An expert or lay witness may have created an exhibit.

Testify about is admitted this one over that.

They may also be shown and testify about other exhibits they previously reviewed or will reveal on the stand.

So when you're writing an expert declaration or even a declaration as a fact witness.

There's a section in there where you list everything that you reviewed.

So if you're a fact witness, you might have reviewed all these Excel sheets.

And then you're going to add of that data. If you're an expert, you might say all of the things that you relied upon to give your opinion.

So it could be evidence for the case. It could be studies, you know, things like that.

So all those things you listed you could have to testify about.

So you're not always testifying only about things that you created.

It could be things that you relied upon for your expert opinions as well.

And then show of hands. You know who's been inside a courtroom before?

Yeah, just watching or whatever. Okay, so one of you has and, you know, you can go in and watch, like most any trial,

like juvenile court, you know, that is closed court, but most other court is open to the public.

So I'd recommend like here in Chicago at some point they'll see a trial.

See how that happens at some point. You know you're probably going to be called for jury duty.

Has anyone ever been called for jury duty and just didn't have to testify or testify or participate?

You know. So, you know, I got called for for jury duty once, and I actually got put on the,

um, the jury and it was a small test case and it was over in one day.

But that was interesting just in terms of what a courtroom looks like.

You walk in from the back.

You have the audience section, you know, with attorneys, you always hear about the bar exam or I got admitted to the bar, you know, in the court,

the bar is basically this,

and this is what separates the officers of the court and the people that are testifying from the audience and from the jury.

So you have the audience section, which could be people that are going to testify later.

It's the victims. It could be people that work at the company.

You know, for some cases, if you're going to testify, the judge might say that you can't sit in the court until it's time to testify.

Other times, they don't do that. So, you know, the last trial I did, I wasn't able to go in there until I actually testified, you know, other trials.

I was able to sit there the whole time, you know, listen to the testimony. And that kind of helps you because you kind of understand what's going on.

But anyway, so then you have the defense, which is usually on the right side.

So you have the attorney and then you know, the defendant.

And then for or you know, it could be a plaintiff, for example, if it's a civil case and their attorney.

And then you have the prosecution, which would be, you know, the state.

So it could be a district attorney, a county attorney, whatever it is.

So you have both sides. Then you have the jurors, then you have the judge that sits up high and you have the witness stand.

So sometimes the jury is over here and the witness stand is over here.

Sometimes it's on the opposite side. It just kind of depends on the courtroom.

Then you have the court clerk. So that's the person that, you know, gets all the evidence and put stickers on it.

And, you know, it could be used if you have any scheduling issues.

You have the bailiff, which helps keep order.

You know, if it's a criminal case, they're bringing in the criminal defendant and making sure that nothing bad happens in there.

You know, there will be a court reporter. So not shown here, I don't think, but a court reporter generally sits about there.

And then they're typing everything. That said, you know, they might ask you if you're testifying, if they don't understand something you said or,

you know, looks like some acronym, they might ask what it means. But in general, this is what a courtroom looks like.

Some courtrooms are very small. Some courtrooms are huge and ornate.

I've testified in federal courtrooms that were giant, you know, that you walk into.

So it just kind of depends on the state court, federal court, administrative hearing, things like that.

Any questions so far? No. So the next part is being able to prepare a witness, but, you know, doing it in an ethical way,

because again, you can't tell if you're an attorney, you can't tell the witness what to say.

You can only prepare them and talk about kind of details for that. So some general tips.

You know, a lot of times, like you'll end up wearing a suit if you're testifying.

You know, make sure that you look good to be clean cut, get a haircut, all that kind of stuff.

So you generally don't want to wear too flashy of clothing.

Why would that be the case? Yep.

Um, it might be too distracting. And then they're not actually paying attention to what you're saying.

Yeah, it could be potentially distracting. What's another reason? The luxury of the grid.

Um, you know, maybe. Maybe it shows, like, arrogance.

But the thing I'm more looking at is, you know, it might make the jury not like.

So, you know, you have to kind of know your audience if you're going to testify in a federal court in New York City and it's in downtown New York.

Yeah, maybe you'll flash it up a little bit, because most of the people in the jury,

like, you know, they or your attorney might tell you, like, we picked the jury.

Most of the jury ends up being corporate professionals.

And, you know, everyone's like, kind of dressed up. So you might want to match that level, but you might be testifying in kind of a, you know,

back country court where everyone shows up in flannels and jeans and, you know, you don't want to show up in your super flashy,

expensive suit and expensive watch and shoes and all that, because the jury might not like you, you know, might say,

this person know, like, looks like they're, you know, thinking they're better than us or something like that.

So generally, the attorney will tell you what you should wear.

Usually when I testify, I end up wearing a suit that's super flashy.

You know, there have been times where if I was, like, testifying as a packed witness, I was just doing simple calculations.

And it was in a more, you know, not a huge metro area.

I might just wear, like, business casual to short for that.

So the attorney will let you know, make sure you arrive early enough to give yourself enough time to get through security and the metal detectors.

But unlike when I had to finish creating my last minute exhibit, it ran and was trying to get through these these things to get into court on time.

So if you have an early morning or out-of-town trial, usually the attorney will, you know, have you arrive or fly in the night before.

You know, it might even be a few days before. So the first time I ever testified, you know, it was a very experienced trial attorney.

So I got in a couple of days before, and they actually took me to the court when it was empty.

And I had appreciated that, you know, he said, like, you know, walk in like, you know, feel the wood that's on,

you know, the witness stand, like, you know, go through the swinging door, get acquainted.

So you're not kind of walking in here the first time and feeling like intimidated.

So, you know, if you have a good attorney, like, not only will they prep you for kind of how the trial is going to go,

but also make sure that you feel comfortable, you know where to go because you don't want to be a witness.

And you know, you get lost and you don't know where the courtroom is and all that.

The judge could potentially hold you in contempt so you could be fined, like even as a witness or potentially held in jail.

You know, that's not usually going to happen, but that could happen. So most courts will not allow you to bring a cell phone inside.

So generally the attorney that calls you, they will have their own little conference room where you know, they're meeting.

You can just put it in there. They might have lockers.

You know, it's good to wear a watch so that you can keep track of time because you might not have your cell phone,

you know, just make sure it's not like a smartwatch or something that's going to be making beeping sounds and all that.

All right. One other tip. Don't enter the courtroom without your attorney.

Make sure your attorney is there.

They're going to make sure that you don't accidentally talk to someone that you're not supposed to like during a trial.

You are not allowed to talk to jurors in any way, shape, or form after the trial is completely over.

Unless there's a rule that you can, you know, you could talk to jurors, but, you know, even if you're in the bathroom or something,

you see a juror like you nod like, smile if you want to, but don't actually talk to that person.

All right.

And as we mentioned, sometimes you could watch the proceedings prior to your testimony, but sometimes there's a motion to bar you from watching those.

So you can generally watch the proceedings after you testify, though, as long as you will not be recalled later in the case for testimony.

So when you're dismissed from the stand, the attorney will generally say, like, you know,

you're dismissed or we're dismissing this witness with the ability to recall them at a later time.

So if that's the case, then if you were barred from the courtroom before, you're not going to be allowed in there after your testimony.

Otherwise, you can generally watch kind of what happens. So ask your attorney about this.

Other tips. When the judge enters the courtroom, usually the bailiff will say, all rise.

Make sure you stand. So you have to do that. Also, you need to stand anytime the judge leaves and when the jury enters and leaves.

So that's just showing respect for the court. So you got to make sure that you're ready to do that.

If you're asked a question by the judge, you know, address the judge's stare or your Honor.

And court proceedings are usually recorded even during recess.

So keep that in mind. So, you know, the judge says the jury can be dismissed.

I'm calling a 15 minute recess. Be careful about what you're saying, because all of that is recorded.

And you don't want a situation where you say something loudly and the other side is able to get access to that recording,

and they know what you're talking about. That's why in trials, you usually see when attorneys are talking to, you know, a witness or their client.

They'll pass notes back and forth.

The reason they're passing notes back and forth is because, one, they don't want opposing counsel to hear what they say,

but they also don't want the microphones in the court to pick up what they say or if there are any media outlets in the court.

So also be careful when whispering to your attorney. And there are actually professional lip readers that exist.

So that's why a lot of times, you know, people kind of put their hand in front of their mouth or, you know,

you see on sports teams, you know, the coach might put a, you know, a play card in front of their mouth.

And one situation that I was surprised about.

So before, you know, I got into all the cyber security specifically, I did about seven years of I.T consulting.

And you know, I had some big clients and I was competing on a bid, and it was for the Mayo Clinic and Saint Mary's Hospital,

and this would have been like out of like a 10 or $20 million deal.

Like all their servers and systems and networking.

And I was working on behalf of Dell.

So I had met with a Dell rep to kind of go over the bid before we presented it.

And we, you know, had dinner in this restaurant.

And I started to talk about, you know, the bid if the guy had said he was like, yeah, when we talk about this puts your hand in front of your mouth.

We were just in a random, you know, restaurant like in Chicago.

And he said, they're actually people that are paid to follow me around the country from competitors like HP or Lenovo or EMC.

And they'll try to understand, like what the bid is, because on some of these bids, low bid wins.

So if they can get, you know, competitive information, they know that your bid is $20 million,

then they might come in at 19, nine, nine, eight or something like that.

So I thought that was interesting. But just keep in mind. Yeah.

Be careful whispering. There are people in business that are like readers.

Yeah, so passing notes may be better for discussion a little later happened in the prep room.

So you do have a room that you can talk to the attorney and there's no microphones or anything like that.

All right. So now talking about the main part. So ethical considerations.

So there's a fine line between preparing a witness which is allowed and tampering with evidence which is not allowed.

So an attorney you know, it's their obligation as an attorney to make sure that their witness is prepared.

If an attorney does not properly prepare a witness, they could actually get in trouble.

So they have to make sure that the witness is prepared for a deposition or a trial, but they can't tamper with their testimony.

So let's talk about, uh, a little bit more detail. So here are things that attorney may not do.

So this would be considered witness tampering which is unethical by any state bar.

So an attorney may not tell a witness specifically how to answer questions, and the attorney cannot draft the witnesses testimony.

So, you know, when the attorneys meeting with a witness, they can't say, all right, here's this document.

So I'm going to ask you this. You're going to say that I'm going to ask you this.

You're going to say that they can't do that. They can encourage a witness to be dishonest.

They can't tell a witness to provide false testimony or leave out critical details.

They can advise a witness to engage in any sort of behavior that is fraudulent.

They can't threaten the witness or their family. So, you know, if it's a mob attorney, for example, you know,

and let's say it was one of the henchmen in the the Mafia provided that person an attorney.

You know, it would be illegal for that attorney to threaten that witness unless they testify a certain way.

An attorney may not offer a bribe. So money for testimony.

So those are all bad things. Those are witness tampering examples that an attorney can't do.

What an attorney has to do in terms of preparing their witness is be ethical.

And here are things that they may do. They can rehearse potential direct and cross-examination questions to make sure that the

witness feels comfortable so that they can practice answers and avoid being anxious.

You know, testifying in a deposition and a trial like it can be a nerve wracking experience.

You know, it's like there, you know, even if you've done it a number of times, there's always going to be some level of nerves,

just, you know, being prepared and making sure that you're ready for all that.

So usually, you know, you can go through kind of a mock trial where they'll ask questions and you'll answer, and that might happen multiple times.

So rehearsal is very much allowed and recommended.

They also may build confidence in the witness to give accurate and honest answers.

They have to make sure that the witness knows to stick to honest facts, and may not alter facts to improve the case.

Yeah. So let's say that you had an eyewitness and, you know, they said that they saw the suspect, you know,

arrived by car and they got this great look at them and they were certain it was this person and blah, blah, blah.

And then you find out later that this person can barely see and has Coke bottle glasses.

And it was actually hazy. And, you know, all of these other reasons.

So, you know, the person needs to stick to honest facts.

So if they have a problem seeing, you know,

that might be something that the attorney might ask them about during direct exam so it doesn't come out and cross-examine.

All right. They also might describe how the attorney plans on attacking the case and how those questions will be laid out.

So, you know, the plaintiff's attorney or the defendant's attorney or whoever will say,

you know, here's an example of how cross-examination is going to work.

Here are the types of questions they might ask. Here are the things that they're going to want to attack you on.

So all that is ethical and should happen. But you just have to make sure that the attorney doesn't actually tamper with the testimony.

That makes sense between the two of those things. Yeah.

All right. So there is a law governing attorneys for this in the procedural laws called section 116.

So attorneys may do the following so they can discuss the role of the witness and what is effective courtroom demeanor.

So like, you know, saying, Your Honor and sir and all that kind of stuff, they can discuss the witnesses recollection and probable testimony.

So they could say, you know, tell me about that night. You know, tell me everything that happened.

So that could be making sure you understand as an attorney what the witness recalls.

And then you can ask, you know, what kind of testimony are you going to give?

You're not tampering with it. You're just asking. So you understand as the attorney.

So they may reveal to the witness other testimony or evidence that will be presented and ask

the witness to reconsider the witnesses recollection or recounting of events in that light.

So, you know, a witness ends up giving testimony.

You know, they might be able to say, well, you know, another witness in this case had talked about this based off of this document.

You know, you've seen this document. Why don't you go ahead and take a minute to look at it?

You know, and, you know, see if you need to reconsider your testimony,

because sometimes it might be a case where a witness, they're not lying, they just might not remember something.

So it's okay for an attorney to remind them that, you know, hey, this happened.

It's better for that to happen on direct than for it to happen on cross-examination, where it's going to make it seem like someone did something.

So the attorney always has to kind of keep a check to of that.

The person is, you know, remembering the facts as they had previously stated them.

And that's why I said, if you're going to be in deposition in a trial later,

I always read my deposition transcripts to make sure that I really understand everything that I said and all the facts,

because, you know, opposing counsel might ask me a question from my deposition.

And if I answer differently, you know, they're going to pull up their transcript and act like I'm a liar,

whereas it might just be that I don't recall something. But you don't want to be in that situation.

So that's why you really need to read your transcript and some depositions.

I think my longest deposition was six hours.

That's a lot of reading. It's kind of like reading a small amount. So but you got to do it.

You got to read through all that. They also may discuss the applicability of law to the events at issue.

So if it's a murder case, you know, how does the murder charge actually apply to this particular evidence?

You know, something might be where the evidence shows intent, which could lead toward, you know, murder one or premeditated murder.

So you might kind of tell a witness, how did the facts apply to the law or vice versa.

Attorneys may also review factual content into which the witnesses observations or opinions will fit.

So any facts that are related to that they may review documents or other physical evidence that may be introduced.

So, you know, if you are a medical examiner and you're going to talk about, you know, let's say a heart,

you know, they might end up giving documents like from the actual autopsy, you know, or things like that.

Or maybe there's a bone that's involved in the case, you know, maybe they'll have them review that physical evidence again.

So they could discuss probable lines of cross-examination that the witness should be prepared to meet.

So no key points in the case that they're going to try to get the witness on.

And then practicing the witnesses testimony. And, you know, you can't tell the witness what to say, but you can give suggestions for choice of words.

You know, so there is a trial I had testified about, and I had done all this complicated analysis, and I had explained that.

And the attorney had said, you know, I don't think the jury is really going to understand, like, you know, everything that you're saying here.

All you really have to do is say, I added up these numbers and I used the database,

but I was essentially using it like an adding machine, you know, and explaining it like that.

So they can give you suggested choice of words in those situations.

And in terms of preparation for trials versus depositions, you know,

a witness should not be prepared the same for a trial as for a deposition, because are different goals for both.

And we'll talk about that a little bit more in the next couple sections.

And one last part of this section. So talking about objective versus subject.

So make sure that all testimony is objective and based on facts and not subjective and influenced by someone's personal feelings.

So when you're a witness the other side, you know, the opposing counsel, they're going to try to rattle you.

They're going to try to make you upset, and they'll realize their potential ability of doing that based on your deposition,

because your deposition is kind of a precursor to trial. So they might try to purposely rally you up in the deposition and kind of attack

you a little bit to see if you might get angry and just start blurting out things.

So you have to make sure that you're very neutral, like, especially during the deposition, you know, like, just be calm, take a second.

You know, even if it seems like someone's personally attacking you, you know, you don't want to be a smart Alec.

You don't want to make smart Alec comments. You know, you want to make sure all of your testimony is very neutral based on the facts.

It's objective. It's not subjective or influenced by personal feelings.

And if you do end up, you know, feeling a little like upset, like maybe someone's really kind of attacking you.

Just kind of take a deep breath. Don't take it personally.

Just stick to the facts. All right.

Any questions about that section. All right.

So we'll do maybe one more section here. And then we'll call up for the day.

And then we'll pick it up next week. So now we'll talk a little bit about deposition testimony.

So again if you write an expert report that's generally called the declaration.

And that's going to be provided to the court before your deposition or your trial.

So, you know, it's this disclosure of expert testimony and it says witnesses who must provide a written report, um,

unless otherwise stipulated or ordered by the court, the disclosure must be accompanied by a written report prepared and signed by the witness.

So after you write your report, you are signing it. You know you're signing it under oath.

Then it says if the witness is one retained or specifically employed to provide expert testimony in the case,

or one whose duties as the parties employee regularly involved giving test expert testimony, the report must contain the following things.

So it has to have all of the expert's opinions in the case, and it has to have the basis for the.

So maybe you cited it based off of the research, maybe it was based on the output of the tool or an analysis or a scientific process that you ran.

You know, you have to have all the reasoning and all of the science there.

The report must also contain the facts and data that were considered by the witness informing them.

So that's where we talked about any documents or things that you relied upon.

Those have to be in there in section. Any exhibits that will be used to summarize or support them.

So if you created something that might actually be an exhibit for trial that has to be talked about in there,

the witnesses qualifications, including a list of all publications authored in the previous ten years that has to be in there.

So generally when you write a declaration in the very beginning, you know, it will say, I am so-and-so, I am, you know, at least 18 years old.

I live in whatever state. And then it'll give your basic background over a few paragraphs.

And then usually there's an appendix at the end that will have your full CV, and that will show you your education,

background, every word, all the trials you've testified in before deposition and or trial.

And then it will have, you know, any publications that you've authored in the last ten years.

The report also has to have a list of all the other cases that you testified as an expert at trial or deposition during the last four years.

So it's not any that you've ever done. So it's just over the last four years.

And then you have to have a statement of the composite or compensation to be paid for the study and testimony in that case.

So if you were paid to perform the initial analysis, you have to give what your hourly rate was for that.

And if you were paid to actually testify in the case, you have to give your hourly for that.

And generally a consulting expert will be a bit less in compensation versus a testifying expert.

So when you're testifying in a deposition or a trial, you can have a higher rate.

So maybe as a consulting expert your hourly rate might be, you know, 3 or $400 an hour.

But then when you're actually testifying, you know, it might be 500 to $1000 now.

So it just kind of varies. And when you read the declaration, an expert report that has to be produced to the court.

So both sides have to be able to see that. And giraffes are protected and do not have to be produced.

So it's fine to have a draft. You'll send it to the attorney.

Now, the attorney shouldn't tamper with your expert report.

They shouldn't say, you know, you should give this opinion or you should say this,

but they could say, you know, yeah, this particular paragraph isn't super clear.

You know, the judge and the jury isn't going to really understand, like,

why don't you explain this and kind of a more clear, concise, easy to understand manner.

So there'll be a whole bunch of drafts going back and forth. Or you can say, you know, you forgot to talk about this evidence.

You know, why don't you talk about that? So that could be a part.

So but in general, the drafts that go back and forth, those are covered under attorney work product.

So those don't have to be produced.

So for a deposition, the whole point of it is it allows the opposing attorney the opportunity to ask a witness questions prior to trial.

So the witness will have their attorney defending the deposition, and the deposition will almost always be recorded.

So usually when I'm deposed, you know, there's a video camera that's on me.

There's a snag or through this typing everything I say. Sometimes there's even, you know, other attorneys that might be in another state,

you know, that are watching, like through zoom or something like that.

So all of that and then a written transcript of everything that was said is generated after the deposition.

And you'll have a period of time where you have to read your transcript and make sure there are no errors.

You know, you can't completely change what you said, but especially on technical depositions,

there might be time where a court reporter just gave the wrong word or they misunderstood the acronym.

So that's your time to basically correct those things in terms of the location.

Usually it's in a conference room at one of the attorneys law offices.

So, you know, during the pandemic then all depositions were really on zoom.

So that was a little bit different. You know, so the courts don't usually like you to have a blurred background.

But you know what I have. I have like one of those giant like kind of what you would use for a green screen except I it,

I turn it around where it's blue and I just put this giant blue screen behind me.

So if I'm in my own home office and let's say I have a whole bunch of bookshelves behind me,

which maybe you've seen in some of the videos I've recorded for class, why would I want to put a big, giant blue screen behind me?

And you know. So they can ask you about anything that's in the room.

So sometimes attorneys, if you're in a video deposition, you know, you might be in the middle of a deposition.

They might say, I know just this particular book, this behind you, Mr. Davis.

You know, did you rely on this book for your opinion?

And then all of a sudden, you're talking about something that you didn't even think you were going to have to talk about.

So, you know, make sure you cut all that off. And then if you go to a real deposition or not a real deposition, they're all real.

But if you go to a physical office for a deposition, don't bring anything in there like anything that you bring in there.

They could ask you questions about. So don't bring any notes, you know, don't bring any copies of your exhibits or anything like that.

Like they will put all that on the screen, you know, so they don't even bring your cell phone in there.

Like, you know, it's it's not it hasn't been allowed very often,

but there have been situations where someone went into a deposition and they had their cell phone as they were asked,

able to ask questions based off of what was on the cell phone.

You know, don't bring your computer in there because there might be a question that they ask you and you say,

well, you know, I don't know the answer to this now. Like, it's fine if you don't know the answer.

You know, don't make up something or don't try to guess. Like you don't know the answer.

Say I don't know the answer. But you might also add, I could find this out later.

I'd have to look at my computer. But if you brought your computer in the room, they'd say, oh, that's great.

I see your computer's here, Mr. Davis. Let's go ahead and open that up, and I'll go ahead and ask me these questions right now.

You don't really want to be in that situation, so don't bring in anything there.

Sometimes it could be at the witnesses location.

So if it's someone and maybe, uh, a personal injury case where they were harmed, you know, the attorneys, like, maybe they're injured.

Veteran. You know, the attorney might actually go to that person's home.

You know, in some situations, you've probably seen some trial movies where it shows someone that it was on the deathbed that,

you know, they're recording that deposition because they might not be able to testify at trial.

So that could be like deathbed testimony.

Definitely. All right.

So as I said, you know, be careful allowing it at the witnesses location because they could catch you off guard or scrutinize items,

books, diplomas, etc., in your office. So again, if it's a video based on, make sure you have something behind you that's kind of blocking.

So the goal of the deposition is the other side's attorney wants to get as much information as possible about your side's case.

So this is kind of their time to understand like they have a good case.

And is this witness going to be good. But they also try to lock down your testimony and trial.

So not only do they want to make sure that you answer the same during trial as you did a deposition,

but they might also say, like Mr. Davis, you know, you gave this opinion.

So this is your opinion, right? Like this isn't going to change at any point.

And, you know, it might be a situation where you think that's true, but you don't necessarily want to lock that in.

What you want to see is like, this is my testimony and this is my opinion, but I reserve the right if I receive more evidence in the future, you know?

Yeah, I'm going to I might be asked to write a follow up report,

and I could have additional opinions because they don't want you to have more opinions later.

They want to try to lock it in, but don't let them do that, because there might be a situation where you have more opinions later.

And as I said, depositions. The transcripts can be used to impeach a witness that gives inconsistent testimony at trial.

They also want to size up the potential impact of your testimony on a jury by assessing your strengths and weaknesses as a witness.

So, you know, they might take the videotape of your deposition and sometimes attorneys before trial.

They actually do mock trials where they'll hire in people and they kind of do a B testing to see,

you know, like, is this witness going to come across favorable to the jury?

You know, is the jury going to hate this witness? You know, maybe the witness like that was kind of aggressive person.

So you know, that could end up happening. They also might probe the witness to see if they have any bias, if they're arrogant, if they're hostile.

And that, again, is where in almost every deposition at some point the attorney is going to

kind of dig in a little bit and try to say something that might offend you or,

you know, act like not, you know, intelligent or, you know, you did something wrong.

They'll try to push you a little bit to see if they might be able to get some hostility that could come out during trial if they do the same thing.

Uh, in preparation for a deposition.

You know, before the deposition, you can review the case with the attorney.

You can meet with the attorney to practice answers. And, you know, check out any potential cross exam questions.

Just make sure the attorney is not telling you specifically what to say.

You'll learn if you need to bring any documents.

Sometimes you should bring documents, but usually nowadays the other side will already have them,

and then they'll pop them up on a screen or on a tablet.

So usually you don't bring anything. But if you do need to bring something, the attorney will tell you.

So don't bring anything else into a deposition. All right.

So as we said, deposition questions are mainly cross-examination questions from the opposing side.

They could be direct questions where it's a more narrative.

You know, they could ask at the beginning like tell me a little bit about your background and why you think you're qualified to talk about this issue.

You know, I've had someone ask me that question and, or they might have said, like, you know,

isn't it true, Mr. Davis, that you haven't testified about this particular topic in the past?

Like, isn't that true? You know, and then their next question could be, you know, do you have any actual experience or background?

And I've been asked that question and I kind of enjoy that because then I've prepared in advance because I know that questions are going to be asked,

and I will talk about everything I have done in my life that is even remotely related to that topic.

Things that I've done in prior jobs, things I have learned, you know, in college.

Things I have taught students such as yourselves in college lectures, I have written,

panels I have, then I am, I will just keep talking until I have stopped.

And at some point, you know, they'll realize like, oh, like this person really does know.

And like, we don't want to ask too any more questions about that. So they might, you know, cut off the questions for that.

So depositions will generally be more adversarial than a trial because it's not in front of a judge jury.

So and a deposition, they'll come at you pretty hard.

And you know, it's up to them if they want to show a transcript like at trial, if it's a situation where, you know, maybe you're on your deathbed.

So obviously not going to be hostile to you in that situation because the jury is going to watch that.

But usually the jury doesn't watch anything from your deposition unless it's

being used to impeach you to show that you gave a different answer earlier.

So in a deposition. Yeah, kind of adversarial, kind of hostile like and a little stressful during the trial.

They'll come after you, but if they come after you too hard, you as the witness, are going to get sympathy from the jury.

And the other side doesn't want that.

So, you know, that first, like, robocall trial I testified in May that is having a full jury verdict of like $925 million.

It's like the largest privacy verdict in U.S. history. So that was kind of a, you know, break the company case, like if this company lost.

So they were going to not be a company anymore, like they would file for bankruptcy, like all that.

So. It was probably hard for opposing counsel because they had to come after me because if they didn't win,

you know they're going to lose their whole company. So, I mean, they had to come after me pretty hard, but they went too far.

And after the trial was over, the verdict came back.

You know, as I mentioned, you're not allowed to talk to jurors during the trial, but afterwards, you can.

It's not prohibited. You know, and I saw one of a few of the jurors on the street when I was waiting for my Uber or whatever it was,

and they were like, oh, Mr. Davis, you know, can we talk to you now? And I said, sure.

And they said, we just wanted to tell you that attorney was really mean to you.

Like, he really came after you and you did a good job sticking up for you.

So I was like, well, thank you. I really appreciate that. And I also thought in my mind, the opposing attorney went a little too far.

You know, they got simplistic so they can't, you know, go too far for that.

All right. So I think this is a good place to start. So remember we got to slide slide 37.

So we'll pick this up next week. Does anybody have any other questions about any of the lecture stuff or anything about the project.

All right. Well if you have any further questions about the project, three is your first person.

You can also ask me to just let me know. And thanks everyone.

See you next week. That's.

Why? You.

Got so many.

Other troubles in this. There's.

I was looking for that one up there.

I didn't know what to put it on.

The exam system for 60s.

Mary. Mary, I.

Am going to pray.

To God. Not for you.

Thank you. Thank. You.

Oh. Good question. I think I actually confess that I think what I mean is that I was going to say it's true.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's really up to the opposing counsel to say, guess you got to keep their minds so you can do your analysis however you want.

But the opposing counsel might consider it that way.

But you also have to keep in mind that if you can do something through the arm and the other side,

might still try to make clear that you did it in a way that's tampering with.

I'll just say that. Which I think it does.

I don't know. Thank you, Professor Hill.

Yeah. Just because I could.

Get. There.

Were a lot of people still cheering for that.

It was like. For every night.

Three.

